450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

[Will1020]

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... i8_jpg.htm
The tensioner shaft is seized into the spring I wedged the block of wood under it and sprayed it down with that aerokroil stuff at $30 a can it better work! Tried hitting the cylinder too. No luck!
Oh and yes my tensioner spring is broken as well! Add that to the list!

[Will1020]

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... o6_jpg.htm

Ok last pic for today. Time for sleep. This one is looking straight down at the rear of the frame work. Its where the rear frame attached to the cross bar. You see how the housing is worn on the outside?!?! What the heck. I guess the chain was hitting it at one point? That is the last rear roller at the bottom btw... Any thoughts?

[amos]

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... o6_jpg.htm

Ok last pic for today. Time for sleep. This one is looking straight down at the rear of the frame work. Its where the rear frame attached to the cross bar. You see how the housing is worn on the outside?!?! What the heck. I guess the chain was hitting it at one point? That is the last rear roller at the bottom btw... Any thoughts?

Morning Will,
"Any thoughts" My thought is you have a serious money pit on your hands.Your best and most economical option is to look for a parts machine with a serviceable under-carriage and start swapping entire assemblies and groups.
I would be disinclined to do even that unless your machine has a primo engine and transmission as well as other strong points.
I buy equipment to fix and sell or fix and use and 1 rule I have that is written in stone,covered with bullet proof glass and has a guard posted to watch over it:If the cost of the equipment and repair far exceeds market value: PASS.
If you got your machine cheap enough and have patience to start the search to locate and buy a donor parts machine that's what I would do.
Many posts here about how expensive these machines actually are. Some are downright funny but all are true: it costs big bucks to own and operate heavy equipment.$30.00 for a can of penetrating oil? That's a deal partner...
But, don't get discouraged! If you like turning a wrench and get satisfaction in bringing things back to a useful life(as I do) it is very fulfilling.Ungodly expensive but fulfilling...
Amos

[Jim B]

Hi Will,

My personal thought on the wear I see on the housing in your photo is that is the result of material passing between the housing and the sprocket over the years. It appears to be on the sprocket side of the housing, in line about center of the bottom roller, which is in line with where the sprocket would run, I doubt the chain did it.

Amos makes some good points on cost to rebuild equipment, it is easy to exceed the true value of an older machine. Like he noted you will likely want to find a donor machine. You will need to decide if a part is worn but serviceable as replacing everything having wear with new will require a huge budget. Beware; the catch to donor machines is one often finds they have a way of needing to be saved as well once you start looking at them. Locate some salvage yards, folks on here can help with that if you ask. Lavoy can help with parts and resources as well. If you understand the risks and like the challenge, go for it and have fun.
Jim

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

The wear part looks like it was from material compaction in the chains. That happens when the pads do not have clearing holes, and I have never seen loader pads with clearing holes. Loader machines are very hard on their u/c parts. That sprocket is worn out. Worn to points and the roots are oval now. I would say you need all the u/c parts at this point. I can't really tell about the front idlers, but I do see Berco on one in a pic, which makes me think it was replaced at some point.

In the Technical Manual there are measurement charts for all the u/c parts. But, I concur that you need to do a lot of work and buy a lot of parts. I don't know what the value of a 450B loader is, so I can't say where the line need be drawn....

Stan

[Will1020]

All excellent responses. I completely understand and agree with all of them. I being a seasoned Auto tech know about pitfalls and money pits for sure. Usually the only way to get money back out of them is usage over time. Still, need to know how much these things can sell for as there may not be enough time!!!! Lol.

[Will1020]

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... d7_jpg.htm
Ok got ram cylinder out of spring cup. Torch and hammer got that out after lots of work. I then used brush to clean up threads at other end of spring and plate for the compression bolt to thread into. I now have sping wiggling. I need to modify my bolt a lil it's to long and needs more thread. Let the machine service work begin.
I also called a local machine company and got auction prices on these units. The low end seems to be at 4000 and the high-end seems to be around 8,000. So I need to figure out which way I want to go. I'm sitting at roughly four thousand in the machine right now. I called a track company and they won $800 for new sprockets and to turn the bushings on the tracks. That didn't sound too bad to me. I guess the thing to do is figure out everything it's going to need and then go from there before spending any money.

[Lavoy]

$800 for a pair of sprockets and turning the pins and bushings seems awfully cheap to me, I would make sure somebody didn't miss something there.
Lavoy

[Will1020]

Thanks Lavoy
He said 600 for pin turning and 100 a piece for sprockets. Once I've got her completely disassemble and parts list going. I'll trailer the parts to him to look at and give estimate. It's an omish guy in ephrata P.A.
Also I have a tech manual and looked through it pretty well. I don't see specs for idler pulleys at all. Only shaft sizes. Any help there?

[Will1020]

https://york.craigslist.org/hvo/d/john- ... 43061.html
Ironically this came up near me. I need to figure out if my 450 is going to survive then look at this. I'd have to sell my old Ford tractor to buy it though. Any knowledge on these? Worth that price? The fresh paint worries me

[Mr. John]

Keep up the progress! Good work and love the pictures!

[Will1020]

Everything off. http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... 5n_jpg.htm

4hoses under step
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... 8l_jpg.htm

4 lines under seat frame
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... g9_jpg.htm

Removed sub assembly
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... 6n_jpg.htm

I worked on getting my air compressor and Welder up and running. I can already tell there's going to be alot of welding holes shut then tapping them back open. I did however get the right saddle bag/ hydraulic reservoir/ control valve off today. It was pretty straight forward. First thing I did was remove the plate where the hour meter is located. Mine was conviently unhooked with 6000 on it. I have no idea if that's alot or not. I then drained the reservoir from the drain plug located to the back side of the crawler it's magnetic and clean!. Then had to remove two bolts holding right step/threshold down. Then removed seat frame assembly. After that's out of the way you can get access to the hydraulic lines. You'll need a 1 1/8 wrench and I believe 1 1/4 wrench. Take off the 4 hydro lines at the step area then under seat frame. Don't worry to much on getting them mixed up the ones under seat are all different lengths and the ones under the step are all rigid and don't move much. I did notice alot of play in the hydraulic handle pivot area. Lol found the ball joint assembly that the left right motion on the lever controls to be completely worn and of coarse....wait for it...... Welded yet again. Now that little ball joint link isn't but twenty bucks. Why do people do this kinda hack work. So after all the hydraulic lines unhooked I unbolted the nine bolts that held the entire box assembly to the crawler. Lifted it off with the old Ford and lots of access room now.... I don't know why but I'm actually enjoying this. You know Ive been a Auto tech my whole life. I started in the field in 94. You'd think this type of exploring and reserecting would get old... I pretty sure it's something in the blood...

[amos]

Everything off. http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... 5n_jpg.htm

4hoses under step
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... 8l_jpg.htm

4 lines under seat frame
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... g9_jpg.htm

Removed sub assembly
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5052 ... 6n_jpg.htm

I worked on getting my air compressor and Welder up and running. I can already tell there's going to be alot of welding holes shut then tapping them back open. I did however get the right saddle bag/ hydraulic reservoir/ control valve off today. It was pretty straight forward. First thing I did was remove the plate where the hour meter is located. Mine was conviently unhooked with 6000 on it. I have no idea if that's alot or not. I then drained the reservoir from the drain plug located to the back side of the crawler it's magnetic and clean!. Then had to remove two bolts holding right step/threshold down. Then removed seat frame assembly. After that's out of the way you can get access to the hydraulic lines. You'll need a 1 1/8 wrench and I believe 1 1/4 wrench. Take off the 4 hydro lines at the step area then under seat frame. Don't worry to much on getting them mixed up the ones under seat are all different lengths and the ones under the step are all rigid and don't move much. I did notice alot of play in the hydraulic handle pivot area. Lol found the ball joint assembly that the left right motion on the lever controls to be completely worn and of coarse....wait for it...... Welded yet again. Now that little ball joint link isn't but twenty bucks. Why do people do this kinda hack work. So after all the hydraulic lines unhooked I unbolted the nine bolts that held the entire box assembly to the crawler. Lifted it off with the old Ford and lots of access room now.... I don't know why but I'm actually enjoying this. You know Ive been a Auto tech my whole life. I started in the field in 94. You'd think this type of exploring and reserecting would get old... I pretty sure it's something in the blood...

"You'd think this type of exploring and reserecting would get old..." For some of us it never does.You started in 94 I started 20 years earlier and some members here started 20 years earlier than me.It is definitely a passion and not "work".
I'm down in my back from doing too much friday and saturday and spent most of saturday evening and all yesterday searching CL for another project.
On your 450 the teardown is coming along. You've probably started your parts list and wait a bit on the ordering: freight and shipping adds up and if you wait and get your parts and suppliers in order you won't be getting multiple individual shipments from the same supplier and will save on shipping.
Question is after us,who will do this sort of work? Every single heavy equipment and tractor shop I know of is desperate for mechanics and no-one is interested. Same on equipment operators: lots of butts in seats but real operators are rare.
Amos

[amos]

https://york.craigslist.org/hvo/d/john- ... 43061.html
Ironically this came up near me. I need to figure out if my 450 is going to survive then look at this. I'd have to sell my old Ford tractor to buy it though. Any knowledge on these? Worth that price? The fresh paint worries me

BH attachment is pretty basic: look for worn pins and bushings,cracks,welds,etc in the stick(dipper to some) and boom.Cylinder condition is an unknown as you cannot get pressure to them. Looks like the seller slathered grease on the rams and you can wipe that off to look for missing chrome or pitting.
He repainted it so ask if he simply cleaned and painted or did he re-build the cylinders. If he says he rebuilt the cylinders ask to see the parts receipts. If not available he is probably not being honest.
Here's a brief of a conversation I had yesterday about a JD 850 tractor:
Seller:she's a strong runner with nothing wrong with it.
Me:any foam in the radiator when running
Seller: never looked
Me: any blow by indicated at the crank case vent line on the right side of the engine just forward of the injection pump?
Seller: don't know what blow by is
Me: how long have you had the tractor
Seller: about 2 months,I got it with another tractor I wanted
Me: so when you say "strong runner" you really mean it starts and idles maybe
Seller: well yes I guess that's what I mean. I really haven't run it much at all........

When talking to any seller you have to remember that they are trying to get top dollar. Some have a soul and are honest. Some don't and aren't.

Amos

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I started at 10 years old. My uncle's Deere dealership was across the street from our school. Dad was the machinist, so I rode to and from school with him. School got out three hours before he did, so my uncle gave me easy jobs to do every day. Mostly involving a steam cleaner and busted stuff. Then, some painting of traded in stuff. Then, riding mower and garden tractor repair work.

My most hated job involved a mounted corn picker on a 60. It was mounted when in the used lineup, but my uncle kept renting it out. So, off came the corn picker. Then, it would come back and on went the corn picker. Several times a year for several years before someone came along and actually bought the fool thing.

Stan