1010/350 winch

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Mikeym70
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1010/350 winch

Post by Mikeym70 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:16 pm

Found this on my local CL. I already have one on the machine I own so thought I’d share.

https://pennstate.craigslist.org/grd/d/ ... 51573.html
1010 gas crawler 6 way blade. New to me 3/2015.

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:29 pm

Hello Mike
I have a 1966 straight 350 diesel loader. Do you believe that the winch that's for sale in PA would install on my machine. I don't have a pto but I do have the pto engage lever upfront by the transmission dipstick. I believe, but don't know, that I would just need a pto shaft installed and the pto would run. Also, are there any mounting brackets that I'd need or does this just bolt directly to the back of my 350? Do you have the manual or the power winch? They are slightly different. Any help is appreciated.
Don

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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Lavoy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:26 pm

You will need winch drive shaft, not PTO shaft. I do not see a controller in the pic, winch is useless without it. I am guessing that is why the price is what it is.
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B Town
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by B Town » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:25 pm

I agree with Lavoy. Winch looks to be in good condition, but incomplete. More pics would be nice. It does have $500-800 fairleads on it, they appear to be in excellent condition. Based on my experience with JD winches, consider them inoperable and in need of major repair/rebuild/$$$ unless you can physically operate the winch. Take care, Bruce

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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:55 am

Gentlemen
I've received other photos of the winch from the owner and the control valve/actuating lever and accumulator valve are all present. This is a MANUAL 3310 winch, NOT the power winch and so according to page 180-5-1 (service manual) "Power flow to the manual winch passes from the tractor PTO to the winch input shaft,..........Therefore, I believe the PTO shaft runs this winch, not the "Winch drive assembly" shown on page 160-5-3. Am I wrong?
Don
1966 diesel 350

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:02 am

Also, I have exchanged emails with the owner of the winch and he said it is driven by the PTO and says there is a shaft that sticks out of the back that slips over the PTO on the dozer. I suppose he could be wrong but it seems to me this winch is driven by the PTO.

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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by B Town » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:19 am

Good morning Don2018,

Your question got me curious about the difference bxt the power take-off attachment and the winch driveshaft.

I went to the parts books at jdpc.deere.com and looked up the 350 crawler. The power take-off and the winch driveshaft are definitely two different animals.

The PTO shaft (#11 in the parts book, part number T21344) is much longer than the winch driveshaft. There are extra cast iron housings to support this extra length and screw on a cast PTO cover. There are clear pics of this and the PTO lever(on a different page in the parts book).

The manual winch driveshaft (#10 in the parts book, part number T21346) is a short shaft. It only comes out the back of the tractor ~3 inches. I believe it has the same spline configuration as a modern small 1,000 PTO, but the splined bit is much shorter.

Now speaking about a 450C( my machine with winch drive and winch), there is no PTO lever, disconnect lever. The winch drive spins when the engine is spinning. They spin at the same RPM.

The coupler( T24774) that couples the manual winch driveshaft to the inside workings of the transmission is the part number for the power take-off attachment. The bearing at the rear of the machine(350), where both shafts exit is the same, part numberJD9344.

Physically, you could put a winch driveshaft or a Power take-off attachment in your machine. But the power take-off attachment will not work with a winch because the shaft is too long. I think you could use the manual winch driveshaft with the PTO lever? Please do your own diligence. Does the PTO attachment on the crawlers spin at the same RPM as the engine like a winch drive?

IMO, If you could turn the winch on/off, that would be the best of both worlds. You could turn the winch off for faster engine RPM's on cold starts and when not using the winch you could shut it off to minimize wear. I wish my 450C was equipped that way.

Take care, Bruce

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:02 am

Bruce
I believe you are correct. Your response prompted me to follow your lead and check the parts book. Even though the service manual clearly states that the manual winch is run off the machine PTO, when I reread other sections (specifically 160) I came to believe that there is a separate winch drive shaft that I would have to locate. Thanks much for bringing that to my attention!
Don

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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:12 am

Hey Lavoy you were correct also.
Thanks

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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Lavoy » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:54 pm

From what I have heard from people over the years, expect to put $1000-$2500 in the winch to make it serviceable.
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:05 pm

Hi,

Well, on the 350 there is a Powershaft which sends engine RPM power around the gears in the transmission. Then, for a winch this is sent out the back. For a PTO, that has to be geared down so it provides 540 RPM at, I think, 2400 engine RPM. So, there is an important difference.

Some machines were built minus the powershaft and so have no lever for it. Some were built with it in place, but without either the winch or PTO. I recall Dad adding either of those back when I was a kid, but didn't pay enough attention at the time to be able to say what it was he had to do. I do remember that if the Powershaft wasn't there it meant a lot of work to add it.

There is the important point regarding the reverser equipped machines: putting the reverser in reverse also reverses the Powershaft rotation. I also recall that reverser machines minus the Powershaft did not have a reverse in the trans (or at least no slot in the shifter gate for reverse), while machines with a reverser and a PTO had a trans reverse - so you could back up and not be reversing the Powershaft.

Stan
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Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
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Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by B Town » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:52 pm

If the 350 PTO is geared down to 540 RPM, will that RPM be enough to run the 3310 winch? I know for certain it would not be enough RPM to power the pump in a 3315 or 3325. But I know the 3310 is quite abit different

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:29 pm

It's starting to seem as if just "sliding in" a winch shaft is not as easy as I would assume, even though I have the pto lever installed on my reverser optioned machine. Stan mentioned " a lot of work" to add a shaft. I'm not at all adverse to a lot of work but it may be beyond my limited time, knowledge and facilities. Also, the winch isn't necessarily needed, I just thought it'd be nice to have "just because".
If anyone knows specifically what it takes to add a winch shaft, please share.
Thanks for the help everyone!
Don

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:56 pm

Hi,

The 'lot of work' referred to not having the PTO lever and so not having the Powershaft inside the trans case. Meaning, removal of the trans to add the shaft. If you have the lever, you have the shaft but not the output part. What I wish I had paid more attention to is how much is involved adding the rest.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Don2018
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Re: 1010/350 winch

Post by Don2018 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:50 pm

Stan
Do you think then that all I have to do is slide in a winch shaft?

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