'73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

[cordlesscarpenter]

I wish I lived close to you... I'm having a hard time trying to find a version of you anywhere near me haha. Most of my "hard to find" parts were casualties of the fire and not wear so if I can find one or two 450Bs or even a 450 or 450C, I should be able to get the parts I need. I'm fine with aftermarket gauges and fabricating work-arounds, it's the things like hyd pump drive/disconnect assembly or the radiator & cooler support bracket, oil lines, hyd lines and the entire intake system from the air cleaner to the turbo inlet (filter housing, filters, plumbing, etc.)

If I end up paying dealer prices for everything, I'd have a $40,000 450B haha

Hoping I find a good salvage yard not too far from me that has a good parts machine or two, crossing my fingers. The journey continues...

[cordlesscarpenter]

Update:

I was able to sell my straight 450 loader for cash and another bulldozer, this time a fully functioning 1974 International Harvester TD-8E with 6-way blade, so I've been going through that machine swapping fluids and filters and just getting it cleaned up in general and ready for work but that work is coming to an end soon and I'll be getting back hard and heavy on the 450B... A LOT of parts have been rolling in and stacking up and I'm getting excited.

Something else I just realized that the 450C was rolled out in 1974 and since this machine is a 1973 model and also knowing that some of the last 450B's were outfitted with the wet clutches, is there a chance my 450B has wet clutches?!? Since I've never been in a wet clutch compartment, What would be a dead giveaway to know whether it is wet or dry clutches that I have? I'm guessing it will be blatantly obvious once I pull the guts out of the first compartment but figured I'd ask you guys since I won't be back on the machine for a few more days. That would be a little bitter sweet if it was wet clutches because I just received the new dry clutch pressure plates and the rest of it is out for delivery right now lol.

[JWB Contracting]

When looking from the outside above the sprocket and track, B and earlier have a triangular cover which is removed to adjust the brakes. A C model has a large pipe plug. C also has a steering valve on top of the rear end.

The TD8E will out work most 450’s up to a G series. Lots of power and heavy. Embarrassing for us Deere fans.

[cordlesscarpenter]

When looking from the outside above the sprocket and track, B and earlier have a triangular cover which is removed to adjust the brakes. A C model has a large pipe plug. C also has a steering valve on top of the rear end.

The TD8E will out work most 450’s up to a G series. Lots of power and heavy. Embarrassing for us Deere fans.

Would a very late "B" model that has wet clutches look like every other "B" model from that outside point of view (with the triangular adjustment cover) or did they make the chassis change when they made the B's wet due to holding fluid. Another reason I ask is because when I pulled the cover off of the clutch compartment and looked down, there appears to be at least a gallon or more fluid in there. A the time I assumed it was water but that's before I realized C's came out the very next year. I'll be heading out to the dozer house soon to give the fluid a lick

Yeah, the TD8E is a beast! I like it very much so far and she drives like a dream with wet clutches and a power shift trans. So nice.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Update and question...

With all the corrosion in the clutch compartments, I've had a heck of a time getting all the guts freed up and out of the way to get to the brakes and clutches themselves but should have them out soon enough. good news is that I've already got the all the clutch plates, pressure plates, throwout bearings and brake bands in hand, just got to get those suckers out and get them rebuilt... man are they being a pain.

The question I have is regarding the hydraulic pump "drive and disconnect assembly". Not only am I having a difficult time finding one (although I do have a yard I'm waiting to hear back from that thinks they have one), I've never had the need nor can I think of a single situation that would lead me to want to disengage the hydraulic pump, but I imagine this feature exists for a reason, does anyone know when and why an operator would disengage??

[Jim B]

I believe it was primarily intended to be an aid during cold starting, to remove the load of turning the pump and cold oil during cranking in extreme cold weather. Once the engine was running and warmed up some, it would be shutdown and the drive to the pump engaged, then restarted to warmup the hydraulic system. It was not used on the 450C and later machines, as far as I know.

[cordlesscarpenter]

That's good to know since I will be in those "extreme cold weather" conditions where I'm headed. I guess you just don't start a 450C in cold weather hehe. On a serious note though, although I've never "done" it, it seems (from memory, since i'm not standing in front of the machine) the disengagement lever is deep enough under there that it would be impractical to disengage and may be impossible to get to without removing the cowl or maybe the skid plate? Is it even accessible by just removing the grill and reaching down in there? INTERESTING

[renogang]

Update:

After much deliberation I pulled the trigger, ordered the SALT chain, new track pads, lower rollers, upper carrier and front idler for both sides ($$ ouch! $$) buy once, cry once right?

Would you mind sharing the total undercarriage price? Tracks, rollers & sprockets. I have a 350C I would like to do someday.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Well, your 350 will be little cheaper no doubt but It's still gonna be a hard pill to swallow...

37 link SALT chain : $1,261.15 each (x2) = $ 2,522.30
14" loader track pad: $18.34 each (x74) = $ 1,357.16
9/16" bolt: 0.50 each (x296) = $ 148.00
9/16" nut: 0.35 each (x296) = $ 105.60
Top carrier: 110.92 each (x2) = $ 221.84
Bottom roller: 136.09 (x10) = $ 1,360.90
Front Idler: 579.39 each (x2) = $ 1,158.78

TOTAL: $ 6,874.58

My sprockets are practically brand new so I will use them. Looks like you can find sprockets for your 350 for right about $150-$200 each (may find them cheaper if you go through a parts dealer), I shopped around with dozens of places for my undercarriage. This was for all brand new parts. One would get a significant deal over new if you found a "good used" undercarriage from a salvage yard. Sprockets are definitely something I would look for used (but real good shape), since they don't have any moving parts within and all you're worried about is wear. Also, through most places, once you cross over about $5-6k the freight is free... and tax is based on your location (I wish I already lived in MT full time where there is NO sales tax but such is life right ha)

[cordlesscarpenter]

My final drives (at least on the right side) look like they were just rebuilt (they look brand new, nice surprise), I've decided to forego rebuilding the finals until they need it. I decided to go this route because it will save me a lot of time during the build, allow me to get full use out of the existing parts and most of all, since I already bought the FD rebuild kits, I will have them on hand when they DO need to be rebuilt. Having the parts on hand will be huge since I will be living so remote. The other major factor in this decision was that track separation is the only major obstacle and will be super easy now that I have SALT chains that just unbolt (Master link vs Master pin)... So glad I went that route! Plus once I have my shop built, this will be an easy peasy job).

After lots of ingenuity and a whole lot of cussing, the right steering clutch is finally out of the housing and broke down. I spent most of the day yesterday wire wheeling the rust off of everything and should have all the rest of the parts cleaned up today and ready to put the new clutch together. I also need to prep the compartment itself before instal, it's terrible in there. I can do all that while waiting for the pressure plate gauge to arrive (JD264), this is the gauge the manual calls for to set the proper hight of the sprung fingers of the pressure plate, which must be done before I instal it all. I believe this part was messed up when they did this job to the left steering clutch on my previous 450 straight (which is now sold) so I want to make damn sure I get this part right.

As an interesting note... the clutches were not the fibrous kind, they were the semi-metalic ones, so in case anyone was wandering, YES, they can lock up too. These particular clutches were in the worst possible environment and were frozen together but they came apart rather easily once I got them out of the drum. Again, I think the key to ANY dry clutch like this is to keep the clutches pulled back when you park it and use the machine. I tell people all the time to never let equipment sit around whether it be a crawler or a car, but they never listen... they NEED to be used frequently or they will mechanically go to poo.

Also, the gauge (JD264) for setting the pressure plates can be found online relatively cheap and can be used or both steering AND engine pressure plates, email me if you're looking and can't find it.

[boaterri]

Other than cold starting the only other reason I can think of for disconnecting the hydraulic pump would be if you blew a line along the chassis. (not a cylinder line) After raising the bucket with the last gasp of hydraulic fluid you could disconnect the pump and limp to the trailer without burning up the pump and having a geyser of hydraulic fluid going everywhere.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Eh, I don't know if i'd be anywhere near the bucket with it raised and a blown hyd line no matter where the blown line was (outside of propping the loader up safely). In my mind, a compromised system is a compromised system and cannot be trusted. I like your thought process though.

On a different note, I'm having a hell of a time finding a flywheel for the build. I've never tried sticking a different engine into a machine than what it came stock with so this may sound silly, maybe not?... I imagine the flywheel is engine specific, since I am putting a 4039DF (turbo) where a 4219 (NA) used to be, I am thinking I need to find a 4039DF flywheel?? Plus with the engine having been on fire for God knows how long, I'm not sure I trust the old 4219 flywheel even if it would work, the last thing I need is the flywheel to have lost its heat treatment temper and start busting off teeth. Problem is... I can't seem to locate a flywheel for a 4039DF. I know a couple of you guys have worked on a lot of these 4039 engines and might know where to find one or might even have one laying around your shop that you'd sell a fella?

[boaterri]

Thanks, agree about the compromised system. By raising the bucket I meant a foot or two so the machine can be moved without dragging the bucket.

Rick

[cordlesscarpenter]

Anyone know of a good source for wiring harnesses? I need to replace basically every wire on the entire machine. I've got a line on a used dash and a bunch of wiring that was pulled from another 450B/C but not sure if it will have everything I need.

Still in the cleaning parts phase for the right clutch... spent most of the day looking for parts. I feel like I spend more time behind a computer screen than I do with a wrench in my hand and it's driving me bonkers.

[The Jug]

I went through the motions for a wire harness for my 350 . No luck have a funny felling you will find the same . So i rebuilt mine cut back the bad parts got some high end but splice with WT heat shrink used same color wires as in manual . So far so good . My machine is at camp next time go up ill install at that point then i will find out how i really did.